I hear you! When I think of that pseudo-Confucius saying, "Person on hill not on level," I am reminded that the seat of federal government is referred to as "the hill." I had an interesting time engaging with your well-considered thoughts.

I hear you! When I think of that pseudo-Confucius saying, "Person on hill not on level," I am reminded that the seat of federal government is referred to as "the hill." I had an interesting time engaging with your well-considered thoughts.

If I had the helm and could steer it without interference there would be no subsidies at all. That said I don't believe in raising taxes on business, because that increase just goes right to the consumer. I would also not pretend to believe there are no abuses by corporations. I believe the failing is with our political system that has become so corrupted on both the state and federal levels that there seems to be no way to fix it.

dtomdick, perhaps you don't think that government giving corporations subsidies, tax incentives, bail-outs, etc. (a dollar amount that far exceeds that given to individuals) is a form of welfare such as that given socially to certain individuals - and that there is no inherent abuse by corporations, such as upper management pay (the aforementioned is rhetorical, as I don't want to presume something about you, whom I don't know). For example, look at the recent bail-outs of those "too big to fail"; soon after, arrogantly large bonuses returned; banks used the money to build, not loan - and small business, the bastion of new employment, suffered from lack of needed loans. Since corporations are now court-certified as individuals, and Super-PACs are proliferating, expect continued Congressional financial support for large "entrepreneurs" to help them survive and succeed (whatever happened to the true capitalistic definition "risk-takers?").

Carlito Ray, I am not sure that I follow what you are trying to point out about Corporate Welfare. I totally agree with you that littering is the work of the lazy,irresponsible and a few other words I won't use. I see an extreme amount of litter every year from the people that attend the Oregon Country Fair, who are supposed to be people that love mother earth, so figure that one out. I guess what I am more tired of than anything else is everyone having to suffer because of a few. I am tired of social engineering, political correctness, and Progressive Non Conceptual Democrats, liberal Republicans etc. etc. I am a 5th generation Oregonian, I love my state and hate to see it trashed.

"Sickening to see what they are doing to a great State." Hopefully this statement also applies to those who litter - and plastic is not as bio-degradable as paper; the amount of litter proves that many are not responsible about proper disposal. I do agree with the comments about hypocrisy, but also want to point out that "free" plastic bags used for other purposes amount to a subsidy (something of value that one gets free or cheaply from another, who has to pay for that item/service). Social welfare and corporate welfare (exponentially more expensive than social welfare) are forms of subsidy: in some cases, each is proper and beneficial; in most cases, they are a travesty. As is obvious, anyone with a modicum of intelligence can "parse;" my point is that this is a situation where shopping bags that have been subsidized (for whatever reason, including marketing) are no longer free; now the consumer "can take paid ownership" and maybe resultant increased responsibility towards what "comes out of their own pocket." I, obviously, am tired of subsidizing others who have the same opportunities - and should have a similar sense of responsibility (including, in this case, not littering).

This, as I said, is just another feely good liberal action, because somewhere sometime, someone like themselves was irresponsible and caused some poor animal a problem. Most people are responsible enough to dispose of the bags properly or reuse them time and again like I do for everything including capping my tomato plants on cold nights. Now we get brown bagged, and yes they fall apart, reusable bags that don't get cleaned, etc. No conceptual ability, that is typical of liberals and Progressive Democrats. Just bully people, preach tolerance, then be intolerant, preach racism, then be racist. Sickening to see what they are doing to a great State.

Let's see. Gasoline was $3.50 per gallon yesterday; if one got 35 MPG (that's to factor in hybrid/electric owners), that's $.10 per mile (not including upkeep, etc.); and now, Oregon is evaluating using a mileage surcharge (mostly because of those hybrids/electrics). That said, should one drive - much less walk or cycle or pay bus fare - to another city to avoid paying $.05 per paper bag (which needn't fall apart if one uses a shopping cart to one's car)? Does one really need a list of why this is impractical? (Whether paper or plastic [or "tins" and glass], our house recycles regardless; call it do-good, if you will, but - important to us - our non-liberal/non-conservative residence is not trashy, and we leave less detritus for those that follow - like our children).

As a consumer, I don't feel I should be penalized for every bag I carry out of the store and forced to pay a 5cent fee per bag. If anything this will push your consumers to shop in adjoining cities, and your local businesses will suffer. This was really not well thought out on the city councils part. You need to attract businesses, and consumers, not drive them away.

Another touchy feeling liberal do gooder idea, just to cost a whole bunch of money. The only reason plastic bags came about anyway was because their tree hugging cousins having a hissy fit over the cutting of trees to make paper. They should not be allowed to use paper in any form, and you know what I mean. Oh, what is it 5cents a bag, and it will fall apart on the way to your car.